How To Turn A One Person Business Into Several Businesses

Speaker: 00:00:01

Welcome to another episode of Talking

Hospitality.

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: 00:00:05

I'm Timothy R Andrews and I'm joined today

with my co-host Tracy Rashid.

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: 00:00:10

Today we ask the question, how can you

build a business from being a one person

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: 00:00:15

band to several successful companies?

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: 00:00:18

Our guest today, Nick Clover, shares his

story of why he started, the highs and

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: 00:00:23

lows of his journey and what the future

holds now 21 years later.

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: 00:00:28

We're excited to bring you today's episode

with the support of our esteemed brand

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: 00:00:32

partners, Graphic Kitchen.

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: 00:00:34

Graphic Kitchen stands at the forefront of

innovative design solutions, transforming

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: 00:00:39

spaces into vibrant, engaging

environments.

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: 00:00:42

They specialize in spoke graphic designs

that breathe life into any setting.

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: 00:00:48

Whether it's a bustling restaurant or a

chic hotel lounge,

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: 00:00:56

and memorable experience.

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: 00:00:59

Discover their stunning portfolio and how

they can elevate your space at grap

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: 00:01:20

Welcome back everybody.

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: 00:01:21

Thanks for joining us again.

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: 00:01:23

But today we're diving into the world of

hospitality with a very special guest,

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Nick Clover, the visionary behind Tolo,

Appetite for Work and HJUK.

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Nick, it's a pleasure to have you with us

and welcome to the show.

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So Nick, you have built an impressive

portfolio with a total of only a prototype

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for work and HJUK.

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So let's start from the beginning.

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And please let us know what those

businesses are and what they're all about.

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But also how did your journey in

hospitality begin?

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So, 14 years old, working in a pub.

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Joined some cash.

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Remember the time, planning to go into

Glastonbury the following year.

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So, um, pocket money is always helpful,

right?

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And for the, so I started working in a

pub.

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Loved it.

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Hard work.

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local pub had a successful busy kitchen,

so the pans are coming thick and fast and

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they're going to keep up.

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Some of my fondest memories were working

in that pub with the people I worked with

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as the young kid who just did it best.

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Will Barron Why didn't you at the X14, I

know, wanted to be a pot wash?

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Richard Larkin Well, if I didn't wash

pots, I wouldn't have had any money.

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Well, to go to Glastonbury, also to, you

know, sort of 14 years old, to be able to

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go and see friends, for example, basically

it was a good lesson in life.

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Will Barron Said to work, work for cash.

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My older brother works in hospitality as

well.

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Big inspiration.

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Don't know at the time if there was any

association there, it was more just a case

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of, I might've been the first to actually

work in hospitality.

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And I think he had worked in another pub

for a friend of the family doing similar

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thing, but watch, it looks fun, it suits.

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How did you go from a 14-year-old to a

flat for work, HGK and a toilet?

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I got experience in the kitchen, got

experience in the front of Paris, got

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experience in behind the bar, which is

probably happiest throughout my growing up

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through studying at the university and did

a 18-month employment with a commercial

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business, which is fab, a lot of hard

work, understanding why that garage needed

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a secretary, why the AI needed a...

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account to pay that person in the team.

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So he just kind of put the pieces together

in terms of what makes that business a

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business.

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So I didn't have that experience before.

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So that was great.

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Because my passion for hospitality, I love

it.

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And seeing Chris is 30 months older, he

sort of thrives as a general manager.

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I just thought, this is what I want to do.

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I just want to be talking to people who

are more relatable to me, because of the

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people that I've known, worked with,

friends.

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This is one thing that I'm quite proud of

is I didn't have any candidates or any

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clients.

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But my contact was there, if that makes

sense, like in terms of one.

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or two restaurants they weren't going to

do.

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But they were just getting out and making

a game of it, suddenly recruiting in

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Bristol.

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So Birmingham and then at the South Coat,

it's kind of London and Hamlet for quite a

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while, really.

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It was more the areas that hadn't been

covered by there's a lot of established

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businesses at the time who had that.

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So maybe I wasn't that clever because I

liked to be on the road for a couple of

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hours and then the main people come back,

well I was in front of the candidates and

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this is the job center.

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They were putting the penny on marketing

for the first.

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Yeah, because I didn't have any money.

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I had a couple of grants to keep it going

for three months.

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And that's why I just wanted to.

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It sounds like you really jumped in just

head first.

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Yeah.

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And you just wanted to do it.

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Yeah.

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I had a friend, a friend actually that I

was talking to about it and she had a

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small commercial, so I said, I'm thinking

about this.

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And it changed in where I'm at the moment.

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It was the time to move on.

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Expectations based on my time without a

resource.

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So it was why I got a bit of a telling

off, even though I massively delivered on

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the financial figures and it was just the

app and the process behind it.

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Whoa, I got told off a lot that time.

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You know, and it's sort of, hang on a

minute.

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I've literally doubled the expectations of

people working shifts and, you know, hours

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of hemp's working.

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And so I thought, no, I'm going to move

on.

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Speaking to a friend, I got a phone call

from one of her consultants who said, hey,

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here you're planning on setting up a

recruitment company.

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I said, yeah, I need to get something in

the yellow pages today.

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So I'm thinking something starting with A.

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She said, yeah, I heard that.

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What about appetite?

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And I was just like, I was like,

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Yeah.

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Just, yeah.

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So I popped down with a bunch of flowers

and a box of chocolates and a couple of

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boards wide for the office.

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Because it really meant something that

she'd actually thought, didn't really know

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her, to phone up and say, what about that?

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So that's pretty cool.

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So I can't take credit for the name and

appetite across two businesses.

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And I work in recruitment, the permanent

side, which is all about getting people,

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just giving them the best experience,

understanding businesses, why they're the

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best business for that candidate and

people.

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So watching the team do it now to the same

standard with...

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guys with a lot of experience or the guys

with no experience.

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It's fantastic.

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When Gem, who I worked with, joined at a

dark time of, she didn't know it was dark,

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but I basically hit the recession, hadn't

reacted quickly enough to the staffing and

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ended up, face to back once you, I'll

probably say, I just worked my way out of

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it.

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The question that Dad asked me was, was it

worth it?

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It's like, yeah, because otherwise I'm

going to just destroy the brand forever

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and my reputation.

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And it's, you know, that's key.

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They do a great job.

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They do put the candle in first.

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Yeah, over the pine

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And that's really important because the

onboarding, when you join a new job, it's

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the next step in your career in an

industry that's really under underrated in

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terms of the respect levels.

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And they do take pride in and get a buzz

as I did.

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When you've got that kind of thing, it's

literally made their day.

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And it's really cool to hear that.

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You know, so forget money, forget it's

about people.

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Yeah, that will happen if you're good.

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And the focus being the opposite from what

I saw in that brief stint in the previous

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business to the way I see the guys

operating now.

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It's

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is just get the people right, give the

right coaching, give the right amount of

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time to understand the business and to

understand the candidate.

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And so just to do a good job, and the buzz

at the end of it is, you know, you've made

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someone's day, right?

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What feels better than that?

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And you talk about hospitality, friends

for life.

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Yeah.

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You know, you can see those relationships

happening on the supply side of the

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recruiters and in the good businesses and

there's a few of them.

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So yeah.

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There's a golden thread with our guests

and it's very much that despite whatever

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you've been through, ups and downs, it's

worth it.

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I think everyone has said it's worth it.

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Yeah.

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I'm already passionate about industry.

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Yeah, same thing.

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Like there are just, there are some common

themes that just keep coming through.

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And I don't know it's cause we're

attracted to the type of people cause

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we're that is those type of people.

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So I had this conversation with the Rain

Copes and then I had a BIHS app.

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big case of hospitality and I know

Michelle, but yes, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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And so, even when we meet the operas this

year, that was incredible because that was

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all about people in our industry.

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Everything that we try to do is make it

better for the people.

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Yes.

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Right.

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So that when they come to our industry,

they've got jobs, they've got a profession

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that we're all proud of.

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Yes.

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So we want them to see the fun side.

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Of course you have to work, you have to

work in any job if you really want to get

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somewhere and that's you're really lucky.

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Right.

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So to see that, it's a, it's a, I'm glad

you pulled that out because this is great

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as well, because having been an recruiter

myself, I was always quite passionate.

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And when my top team was called Learn,

Train, Recruit, that's what we did,

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because we trained them up.

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You know, before we put them into work, we

did like 10,000 people, we trained 10,000

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people from scratch in six years.

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So then when they came up, when they did

their first job, they had some skills set.

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Right.

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So that philosophy runs through, let's say

we're talking about hospitality as well,

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which is why I was totally not doing it.

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We have signed up to your mentors program.

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So because it's about helping people in

the industry, because whilst hopefully

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I've got a lot more to give, there's, you

know, there's people that are coming

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through that need to see what I want.

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Yeah.

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And it's so refreshing when you recruiters

talk about the industry here.

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You know, they took my hospitality first

as opposed to the

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recruitment, which is when I think

recruitment and there are those

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recruiters, I'm sure you know them, I know

them, they'll always be calling, but if

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you can't look on that, they're literally

just to make money and just ask.

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And it's a lot of patience for it.

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It's about the people as well.

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As you said before, it's meeting your

clients and your potential placements face

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to face.

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So it's not the opposite number.

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You're not just trying to fill a seat,

you're just trying to get your money.

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It's about people having it.

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which makes an opportunity, which makes

the world a different place.

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It's a massive connection.

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And that's where, that's where in five

years time, that presence likely to be

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client.

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You know, it's seeing the CDPs go in and

become head chef and hey, I've been in a

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sous chef sort of thing.

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It's like good people are never quiet.

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So, but it is, it is, I think it's been

the underdogs as well to them, isn't it?

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Because if we look at the way that they're

reviewed, and I'm going to mention K's

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name again, 165 billion turnover and

they're complaining to be recognised as an

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industry, I don't know, I don't know, I

don't know, I don't know.

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It's the previous class system, the way

that parents and teachers view the

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industry.

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You know, I know you two have been into

the schools to encourage, and I love that.

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I absolutely love that.

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I'd love to get involved in that at some

point.

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And the interesting bit that, you know,

spending time with the teachers and the

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parents to feel proud about their kids

doing something that they would get at.

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And you mentioned a competition between

schools and that's absolutely amazing

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because kids are the bosses at the end of

the day, aren't they?

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They're just influenced by other people to

get through that way as well as spending

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time.

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So I do love that.

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I mean, certainly I've seen.

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know, a few people that are, well, someone

very close to me that would do some

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hospitality, brother actually, and you

know, a couple of the guys from school

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like, what's going on?

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It's like, hospitality, Bunningham

restaurant.

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And it's just like, what?

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That's real.

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That's really, really real.

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They don't know how hard this guy works

and what it's like doing a shift.

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You should try because it's great fun.

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Yeah, you might be frowned upon, but so

what?

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Be the underdog.

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And look at the case studies in the

industry and the encouragement of kids

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coming into it.

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They can be that person.

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So, you know, I think we're...

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We do know the challenges in the industry.

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We know that there's a big burnout.

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We know there's a drug and alcohol problem

and people taking the wrong coaching

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mechanisms, because I believe that that's

because it's easy.

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You take the easy choice and you're in an

industry that's got alcohol everywhere,

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but then it shows the whole world.

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Right.

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But what do we do with our managers?

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Right.

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What do we do with our, with our teams?

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We reward them by giving them beer.

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It's absolutely fine.

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But why?

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Because that's also easy.

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So when it becomes case, someone is burnt

out or they've had something happen in

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their lives and.

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They turn to something.

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That's the reason that the drug and the

alcohol problem has become too much of a

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coping mechanism to actually affect

people's lives.

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And I think hospitality can't be solely

responsible for that, but it can think

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differently.

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It can think differently.

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Let's go paintballing.

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Let's not say well done.

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It's just being a little bit creative.

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I mean, hospitality is not the only

industry that's responsible for that.

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All businesses do it.

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All industries do it.

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It's those Christmas parties.

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I'm doing exactly the same thing.

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Let's go to a restaurant and we'll pant

some iron and drink beer.

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But going back to the atria, Tim, as to

why that was such a good thing, you know,

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go to the industry events, there's nothing

wrong with celebrating the directors and

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the CEOs and the heads of, et cetera, et

cetera, but they're really doing quite

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well.

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Atollo is about a trapped retained

developer.

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Every business I'm involved in, Appetite

for recruitment and work, is a trapped

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retained developer.

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So, to mention the atria in a second, the

standard Appetite for work, when I got

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introduced to him, if you know my

gardener, you realize just quite how much

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of a legend he is, how good he is, how

strong he is, how dedicated he is.

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Part of that process and his team are, is

getting people into the shifts at Wembley,

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Twicken and Ascot, whatever that might be,

to earn some cash.

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I can't even remember when I was 14 years

old.

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Yeah.

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And he said, well, we don't probably need

to be able to serve alcohol.

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Yeah, fine.

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But ultimately that first taste, if

they've got a great experience, they know

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exactly where to go when they get there.

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They're not getting lost.

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They're not getting stressed.

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If you're right, so you go in for those

doors, you turn left, you turn right.

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It's going to be a stand there.

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Paul's going to be on the stand and then

he's going to give you this.

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You're going to come through.

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See it already.

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You're not stressed.

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And that can be the first time they've

caught a pint.

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First time

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clear the table, first thing they've

served the plate.

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And so to have the whole experience case

of, well, surely there's responsibility

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there because if they've had a really bad

experience, then they might not come back

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to the next shift or they might not in an

ideal world, which I know has happened to

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a few people, falling in love with the job

and actually then taking it as a career.

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And one of our key challenges is

attracting people.

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So there's definitely a strong purpose

with Applite for Work.

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And then back to, we're going back and

forward, which I love.

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The Okras, it was Chris and Kieran's idea,

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predominantly college years background,

because Fletcher, Permanayam and Kieran

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and Bailey from Wagamomus and Hard Rock.

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They're both Hard Rock.

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Great guys.

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And with our other business partner, Ian.

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But I think the four of us, Ian Burke,

yourself, K2.com and various other things.

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So we're kind of a cool team, but you

can't think in the way that someone else

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does.

316

: 00:13:41

So I know that we were four of us who sat

there and Kieran had come up with this

317

: 00:13:45

idea with the Hard Rocks, which is

amazing.

318

: 00:13:46

But it's actually, it's not that we didn't

talk about negatively, but it's actually

319

: 00:13:49

about celebrating the real people.

320

: 00:13:51

They had someone called Joan, 30 years in

Hard Rock, waitress.

321

: 00:13:54

Fantastic with the team, fantastic with

the guests and completely underestimated

322

: 00:13:58

by the snobs that hospitality is not a

career and all that kind of nonsense that

323

: 00:14:00

Boris came out with back in the day.

324

: 00:14:02

And then it's sort of to maintenance and

to support to bar the entry-level person

325

: 00:14:08

and the reaction to getting that, so I

literally made that year, literally made

326

: 00:14:14

that year rather than, you know what, the

CEO who's just got an award and gotten mad

327

: 00:14:18

at tomorrow, it might appease his high

ego, you know, initially.

328

: 00:14:20

Whereas...

329

: 00:14:21

People have been sort of thrown around on

stage and just literally just like, yeah,

330

: 00:14:24

this is what it's about.

331

: 00:14:26

This is what it's about.

332

: 00:14:26

Because actually the CEO doesn't need to

be, I'm not saying there's anything wrong

333

: 00:14:29

with that, but my view is getting it in

the right order.

334

: 00:14:32

And Chris McKeown kind of nailed that

because you're celebrating a CEO who's not

335

: 00:14:36

going to be anywhere without Jones.

336

: 00:14:40

And I mean, on the night of one of the

runners up, which was speaking to her

337

: 00:14:44

before she went on, she was so excited.

338

: 00:14:46

Oh really?

339

: 00:14:47

And she came to see her.

340

: 00:14:48

Oh, she didn't get the prize.

341

: 00:14:49

And she was disappointed.

342

: 00:14:50

But she turned to me and she just went,

I'll give it next year.

343

: 00:14:54

Oh really?

344

: 00:14:55

And I was like, yeah, that's a true bond.

345

: 00:14:58

Right.

346

: 00:14:58

I was like, this is it.

347

: 00:14:59

This is it.

348

: 00:15:00

Yeah.

349

: 00:15:01

And it did create a lot of good will.

350

: 00:15:03

It did.

351

: 00:15:03

So far I've been in the room and like you

say, really appreciating it.

352

: 00:15:10

Even being nominated, you know, and then

when it was enough for a lot of people.

353

: 00:15:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

354

: 00:15:15

Yeah, really, really good.

355

: 00:15:16

First of its kind and certainly won't be

the last couple of things we tweak on in

356

: 00:15:20

terms of the, but the first event of its

kind, you kind of, and thank you for a

357

: 00:15:24

little bit of constructive feedback, but

actually on the most part, 95% it was

358

: 00:15:28

pretty much on point.

359

: 00:15:29

As you were building, did you have a

philosophy when you first started or a key

360

: 00:15:33

principle when you first started that this

is what I'm going to be about?

361

: 00:15:37

Or did you kind of do it and then it

developed over time?

362

: 00:15:39

Oh, developed over time.

363

: 00:15:41

So when I set up a type of recruitment, I

did think about doing the temp side

364

: 00:15:43

because I'm going to Manchester and

having, you know, people working in the

365

: 00:15:47

schools in the kitchen and first, my first

temp, Jack Makin's friends, stuff, I

366

: 00:15:52

picked him up and took him to the school,

dropped him off and then came back because

367

: 00:15:55

somebody didn't want me to transport.

368

: 00:15:57

So I did think along the temping line.

369

: 00:15:58

I never forgot about that because then I

just got, I'd never done permanent

370

: 00:16:01

recruitment, never done hospitality

recruitment.

371

: 00:16:02

That kind of compliance and said, this

was, let's just see what this is like.

372

: 00:16:06

And then when I found permanent

recruitment.

373

: 00:16:10

It's got to be a bit natural, hasn't it?

374

: 00:16:11

Yeah.

375

: 00:16:11

When I found permanent recruitment, it

was, I've done it before, not the

376

: 00:16:14

post-partum recruitment, but the permanent

recruitment and it was just the case of

377

: 00:16:17

kind of went completely that way.

378

: 00:16:19

And I loved it.

379

: 00:16:20

I loved finding out about the businesses

in a really intimate level and the

380

: 00:16:22

operational structure, so it was the

reporting structure from the, for the MD

381

: 00:16:26

to the regional director, to the area

managers and just having all that basic

382

: 00:16:30

knowledge of, I'll bet it's the people,

it's an anagram of people, you know, so

383

: 00:16:33

and it's really, really important.

384

: 00:16:34

And then understanding what the features,

the benefits, the career planning and

385

: 00:16:40

type of people that you're going to be

working with, people are working with, how

386

: 00:16:43

do you describe your teams?

387

: 00:16:45

How do you describe the company?

388

: 00:16:46

All those kinds of things that you ask

those questions and the guys still do it

389

: 00:16:49

today, and it's really, really important

and digging deep.

390

: 00:16:52

That's just almost even not opening yet.

391

: 00:16:54

Getting that understanding as to why, why

with this amazing candidate and why is

392

: 00:16:58

this an amazing candidate?

393

: 00:17:00

Why is this person worth employing?

394

: 00:17:04

Because we all know it's like 16,000

pounds to train up.

395

: 00:17:07

new manager.

396

: 00:17:08

And then obviously look at the turnover of

staff so you can increase the retention of

397

: 00:17:11

your teams, et cetera.

398

: 00:17:12

So that person's got to be really, really

good to be worth, forget any fees attached

399

: 00:17:16

to it, to be a given HR.

400

: 00:17:17

So you've got to get to know them.

401

: 00:17:19

That was my sole focus.

402

: 00:17:21

I think to answer your question, no,

you've been completely apathetic from what

403

: 00:17:24

I've got introduced to Mike.

404

: 00:17:26

Yeah, that was in the back of my mind, but

it certainly was an opportunist.

405

: 00:17:29

Actually, do you know what?

406

: 00:17:30

Why don't we set up on the back of an

established and a tempting business?

407

: 00:17:35

quite a nice experience.

408

: 00:17:36

It comes from strength to strength.

409

: 00:17:37

It's amazing.

410

: 00:17:38

HGA was completely, completely fluke on

the back of meeting Jordan, who had that

411

: 00:17:43

business, I don't know if we've talked

about this, to the point of throwing it

412

: 00:17:47

back in the way, an amazing, lost their

way.

413

: 00:17:50

They're then going into, with support, you

know, to the hospitality industry.

414

: 00:17:54

And so, wow, I'm lucky to be introduced to

it at early days, really, really early

415

: 00:17:57

days, and Jordan and I were paired up and

she had a job board and a recruitment

416

: 00:18:01

agency, so sort of, actually we teamed up.

417

: 00:18:05

Made the changes, put a lot of money into

a new website and all the systems were

418

: 00:18:11

running behind it and spent time then

relaunched.

419

: 00:18:14

But no, it was just coincidental that you

have a conversation that sort of makes

420

: 00:18:18

sense and some of them, they're taller.

421

: 00:18:19

I met Chris at an event, I think it was

when Haley was talking about delivering on

422

: 00:18:23

the hospitality priority campaign and just

in passing, so Chris didn't know him.

423

: 00:18:28

Said, hey, let's be in touch.

424

: 00:18:29

Went to a couple of his events with

Kieran, the ESP, Rims 101.

425

: 00:18:34

made a point of taking time to, I think

our first meeting was a beer and they were

426

: 00:18:38

buzzing because I think they just

sponsored for something and the next one

427

: 00:18:40

was a coffee.

428

: 00:18:42

Let's talk, let's reduce the energy levels

and talk.

429

: 00:18:44

I got a call from Chris one day saying,

this guy, James Lemon, has set up Let's

430

: 00:18:48

Holo and he has approached me.

431

: 00:18:50

Basically wanted to, his set up wasn't

right.

432

: 00:18:53

So I thought to call you, then Ian,

myself, Chris and Kieran chatted.

433

: 00:18:57

We'd already done a couple of sessions

with them just to help make sound in terms

434

: 00:19:00

of, you know, ask those questions in terms

of where the business that we wanted to

435

: 00:19:03

be.

436

: 00:19:04

We already knew each other and then yeah,

it's a fairly tight window to take on

437

: 00:19:09

Atolo.

438

: 00:19:09

That was already set up.

439

: 00:19:10

But when I read the Atolo, the reasoning

behind it, which is like, this is like

440

: 00:19:15

looking in a mirror.

441

: 00:19:16

You're talking, it's all the right things.

442

: 00:19:17

It's about the mentoring and the

importance of how many people lived for so

443

: 00:19:22

long without having a mentor.

444

: 00:19:25

If there was just that time taken and

actually the industry culture, that's just

445

: 00:19:29

one small aspect.

446

: 00:19:29

It's about doing one small thing.

447

: 00:19:31

that makes a significant difference.

448

: 00:19:33

And that's what we believe in it.

449

: 00:19:34

That's why you got involved.

450

: 00:19:36

And then obviously the training aspects

and, and community is a plus and being

451

: 00:19:39

able to do the operence.

452

: 00:19:40

But the bottom line is actually with the

support, you know, the retention rates

453

: 00:19:44

will, which is pushed off the scale in

hospitality can be reduced because people

454

: 00:19:48

just need support.

455

: 00:19:49

Good people need support.

456

: 00:19:50

And we all do.

457

: 00:19:51

I mean, I didn't have a mentor for way too

long.

458

: 00:19:54

I was probably about 15 years too late,

which could have taken a lot of the pain

459

: 00:19:59

and stress out of it.

460

: 00:20:00

just to feel that bit of support and

completely isolated at times, it just all

461

: 00:20:03

feels like it's against you.

462

: 00:20:05

And that proactivity of competitors, et

cetera, it's going to sort of set a limb

463

: 00:20:09

here and just doing the trial and error,

which is amazing because I think you have

464

: 00:20:14

to have that drive, that energy.

465

: 00:20:17

And actually that was a good question

before in terms of why, because I believe

466

: 00:20:19

in this industry.

467

: 00:20:19

I've seen people being broken by the

industry.

468

: 00:20:21

I've seen people being discouraged in the

industry.

469

: 00:20:23

Therefore, I'm very, very passionate about

it and to be able to do the cool stuff

470

: 00:20:28

while being realistic.

471

: 00:20:29

most tinted glasses and all that, but at

the same time, the clothes and the tinted,

472

: 00:20:33

not completely blanked out.

473

: 00:20:33

Yeah.

474

: 00:20:34

So with a realistic approach, I think that

realistic approach is, yeah, let those

475

: 00:20:36

things do the change and decisions people

are making.

476

: 00:20:39

You know, as you talked about drugs and

alcohol and that easy support, which is

477

: 00:20:43

the most even support, yeah, if abused.

478

: 00:20:46

And, you know, we know it's right.

479

: 00:20:47

And I didn't realize this is me just, I

was going into it.

480

: 00:20:49

So I was going, but I was working with

someone, he decided to go back into

481

: 00:20:53

industry, kept in touch, popped down and

he was telling me, this is, this is

482

: 00:20:57

something that people will really resonate

with.

483

: 00:20:59

I didn't realize that, you know, so many

businesses, we're going to talk about the

484

: 00:21:02

potential of the market, it's going to be

real.

485

: 00:21:04

You've been basically doing coke, having a

shot of tequila to get yourself through

486

: 00:21:06

the shift.

487

: 00:21:07

What do you do after the shift?

488

: 00:21:09

Oh, well then you, then the party starts,

right?

489

: 00:21:10

Okay.

490

: 00:21:11

Then you feel pretty, and what if

something's going wrong in your life at

491

: 00:21:14

that point?

492

: 00:21:14

It might just be a party period of time

for a while, but what happens if you have

493

: 00:21:19

a bereavement in the family?

494

: 00:21:20

What happens if you have a relationship

break up?

495

: 00:21:22

You know, at that point it becomes a case

of something that was fun becomes really

496

: 00:21:24

something that's quite dark.

497

: 00:21:26

And the balance is missed out on.

498

: 00:21:27

So as I mentioned before, if companies can

not always be rewarding with alcohol, but

499

: 00:21:32

they can be actually doing sort of fun

activities.

500

: 00:21:34

The restaurant I was at, which is called

the Mississippi Exchange in Guildford,

501

: 00:21:37

amazing American quality style.

502

: 00:21:40

People dancing on the tables at Christmas

and stuff.

503

: 00:21:41

We used to go play football.

504

: 00:21:43

I wasn't a footballer, I'm a rugby player,

but I can, I know how to kick a football

505

: 00:21:46

and to run around and so just get fun.

506

: 00:21:48

We just play and then we had a competition

with another couple of the restaurants and

507

: 00:21:51

doing all those kinds of things.

508

: 00:21:52

And it's just.

509

: 00:21:53

I mean, that's just one example.

510

: 00:21:54

And I think sport is a really good

recreational activity.

511

: 00:21:57

It would do, yeah, you know, it's nothing

wrong if you go and have a beer and get

512

: 00:21:59

smashed over and over.

513

: 00:22:00

I mean, there's not, I'm not a judge,

like, you know, but at the same time, I

514

: 00:22:04

think we do have a responsibility to do

other things.

515

: 00:22:10

So in those moments of doubts or

challenge, how do you stay focused,

516

: 00:22:15

old-spyred?

517

: 00:22:16

By reinventing a thing.

518

: 00:22:17

I think having the next opportunity, one

thing, but then you can also get lost in

519

: 00:22:21

that because hang on a minute, how do I

stay focused?

520

: 00:22:26

Because I'm passionate.

521

: 00:22:27

So to back off from everything after COVID

and it being, for so many reasons, a

522

: 00:22:31

really difficult time, that then it's sort

of a case of, okay, right, so the next

523

: 00:22:34

site of things starts, it's very, very

different with different energy, different

524

: 00:22:38

personalities.

525

: 00:22:39

the point of being lost.

526

: 00:22:41

Yeah.

527

: 00:22:42

And I was lost during the banking session.

528

: 00:22:43

You can say, well, how the hell do I get

out of this?

529

: 00:22:45

Or how do I get back into this?

530

: 00:22:46

And in the case of, well, you just do, you

just do and try to be as kind and strong

531

: 00:22:50

as possible, but I think that there's a

lot of leaders out there that probably,

532

: 00:22:55

you know, it looks absolutely amazing

because there are certain times behind the

533

: 00:22:57

scenes it's, it's an absolute, if I can

say shitshit and you, you kind of, you

534

: 00:23:02

hide that, you put your front up there

and, and that's not actually healthy for a

535

: 00:23:05

human being.

536

: 00:23:06

So it's actually, you know, we work with

hospitality action.

537

: 00:23:09

to be able to know everyone in the team.

538

: 00:23:11

And obviously, you know, to phone up and

get those conversations, those supporters

539

: 00:23:15

conversations, which is really, really

important.

540

: 00:23:17

And I've got no embarrassment behind that

at all.

541

: 00:23:19

In fact, you know, I think there are times

where there's just too much going on.

542

: 00:23:23

So to keep that motivation and drive is

the case of, right, well then, okay, at

543

: 00:23:26

that point, what gets me out of bed in the

morning?

544

: 00:23:28

What I want to do.

545

: 00:23:29

And actually I want to get out of bed in

the morning.

546

: 00:23:32

If you'd asked me that question two months

ago, and I'm being really honest with you.

547

: 00:23:38

All I'm going to do in my head, right, at

that time, all I'm doing in my head on

548

: 00:23:41

certain days is thinking, shit, I've got

to do that, shit, I've got to do that.

549

: 00:23:44

I've got to do that.

550

: 00:23:45

And all those things that that's what you

get out of bed.

551

: 00:23:48

You get out of bed to do those things

rather than sitting there thinking, you

552

: 00:23:52

know, playing in your mind, then it

affects your sleep pattern.

553

: 00:23:54

Sleep's really, really important.

554

: 00:23:56

All of the things that happen.

555

: 00:23:57

I mean, luckily I've got a strong enough

support network to be able to come through

556

: 00:24:00

to the point of, right, here we go,

reinvention, the next stage, the next

557

: 00:24:04

stage.

558

: 00:24:04

And I'm really, really excited about it.

559

: 00:24:06

Did I enjoy certain times of my career?

560

: 00:24:08

No, no, no.

561

: 00:24:10

But, I'm still here doing it.

562

: 00:24:14

What key piece of advice would you offer

to aspiring leaguers in this society?

563

: 00:24:18

Oh, good question.

564

: 00:24:20

Okay.

565

: 00:24:20

I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with

two words twice.

566

: 00:24:23

Confidence and humility.

567

: 00:24:24

I think getting that balance right, you

don't be overconfident and then, and then

568

: 00:24:27

two, not, not humble enough, because I

think that's really, really key to be real

569

: 00:24:31

and a good human being on that side.

570

: 00:24:32

And if your confidence is taking a nobble,

which it will.

571

: 00:24:34

not, which it will with all of us.

572

: 00:24:36

And I think that the character bit is

being able to come through that on the

573

: 00:24:38

other side.

574

: 00:24:39

Then I think the humility goes to an

unequal level of over compensation, which

575

: 00:24:45

isn't good.

576

: 00:24:45

And I think then the vulnerability and

bravery are the other two words I'd use.

577

: 00:24:53

And that might not make sense, I'll

explain.

578

: 00:24:56

The vulnerability is absolutely key,

right?

579

: 00:24:58

So we're human beings.

580

: 00:25:00

And I think showing that vulnerability,

genuine vulnerability...

581

: 00:25:04

not in a way that's going to concern

people, but in a way that is a case of

582

: 00:25:08

it's okay to be a human being.

583

: 00:25:11

So forget all the other words from the

past, it's okay not to be okay.

584

: 00:25:14

I think it's okay to be a human being.

585

: 00:25:15

And I think that for a leader is a lot

more engaging than a fake facade, which is

586

: 00:25:20

a case of, what's wrong with, I'm not in

that relationship, I don't quite know what

587

: 00:25:24

it is.

588

: 00:25:24

I think because the vulnerability is not

there sometimes.

589

: 00:25:26

And the other word that I used at that

time is fearlessness.

590

: 00:25:30

So fearlessness is basically bravery.

591

: 00:25:32

To show that vulnerability, I believe is

592

: 00:25:34

But it's also then combines with the

confidence to be able to say, I've got

593

: 00:25:39

you.

594

: 00:25:40

Yeah.

595

: 00:25:40

I've got my role locked in to be

approachable.

596

: 00:25:44

And, you know, we've said before, it's,

you know, leaders are everywhere.

597

: 00:25:48

Yeah.

598

: 00:25:48

If it's a case of, you know, you're

working a long shift and people are

599

: 00:25:51

lagging in that energy you bring to pull

people up, that's, that's real leadership.

600

: 00:25:55

You know, more so than it is to sit in the

boardroom.

601

: 00:25:57

This is where you'll be quite authentic

because my first impression of you was, I

602

: 00:26:02

knew you were a busy piece.

603

: 00:26:04

Yes.

604

: 00:26:05

And it was Vicky, Vicky came over, Vicky

Glover.

605

: 00:26:10

She came over and she was like, Nick,

what's the, if it's all right, if you

606

: 00:26:15

could speak with you.

607

: 00:26:16

And I was like, why, why is he asking, you

know, I was like, of course you can, if I

608

: 00:26:21

read some of your stuff anyway.

609

: 00:26:22

I didn't know she'd said that.

610

: 00:26:24

Yeah.

611

: 00:26:24

I was like, anyway, and then when I went

over to you, of course you, you know, you

612

: 00:26:29

can't, you're paying for the event

essentially.

613

: 00:26:32

And then it was like,

614

: 00:26:33

Yeah, but yet you're a podcast writer.

615

: 00:26:35

And it was just so hungry.

616

: 00:26:37

It was just like, so funny because like

talking a lot of times is growing massive,

617

: 00:26:42

like literally just been since then, but

we were kind of like just feeling away and

618

: 00:26:46

what we wanted to come at that point, but

for you to do that with such deference is

619

: 00:26:51

quite rare, particularly in recruitment, I

would say.

620

: 00:26:55

So I was quite taken aback by it in a

really positive way.

621

: 00:26:57

I was like, I was trying to go, of course

this is all right.

622

: 00:27:00

Like that shows you took your talk.

623

: 00:27:02

Because you would just, you know, think,

just assume like we get now at sometimes

624

: 00:27:07

where people just come up to us because

they, we're not celebrities, but they sort

625

: 00:27:10

of think we are in their head.

626

: 00:27:12

And they'll just come up to us like quite

rudely sometimes, just expecting us to be

627

: 00:27:16

available for learning.

628

: 00:27:17

Whereas it, so it was quite, to see that

was quite a, quite a comparison.

629

: 00:27:20

So.

630

: 00:27:21

The bit of the story that Tim is missing

out, because he did recite this story to

631

: 00:27:25

Hades, I know all about this story.

632

: 00:27:27

The bit he's missing out is the fact that

at the same time where you were asking me

633

: 00:27:30

if you could speak with him.

634

: 00:27:31

In his mind, it's like, but you're Nick.

635

: 00:27:33

Yeah, yeah.

636

: 00:27:34

You're Nick and you've done this, this and

this.

637

: 00:27:36

So it was almost double-edged sword and

you both didn't realize you were feeling

638

: 00:27:39

the same.

639

: 00:27:40

Didn't realize that would make quite the

impact.

640

: 00:27:42

And I think he's really sweet to kind of

hook us up as it were.

641

: 00:27:45

And actually, I think that being a bit

unassuming is quite important, I think,

642

: 00:27:48

for a leader.

643

: 00:27:49

And I'm not putting myself as a leader.

644

: 00:27:50

I don't feel like a leader.

645

: 00:27:51

But I think that if I was to look at

leaders that I know, the strongest leaders

646

: 00:27:56

are unassuming sometimes, yeah, rather

than...

647

: 00:27:59

I'd say you're a leader, personally,

but...

648

: 00:28:06

So that sound Nick, just in case you want

to drink, I'm sure you will.

649

: 00:28:09

It means it's time for a rapid fire

question round.

650

: 00:28:12

Put the cuppa down for the rest of the

time.

651

: 00:28:14

Why am I not scared?

652

: 00:28:15

You should be actually.

653

: 00:28:16

Is it a bit?

654

: 00:28:17

A little bit serious.

655

: 00:28:18

Or not?

656

: 00:28:19

We've explored your professional insights,

but now it's time to delve into the real

657

: 00:28:23

Nick.

658

: 00:28:24

To our regular listeners, you know the

rules, but if you're new and Nick, your

659

: 00:28:28

challenge is to answer each question with

just one word.

660

: 00:28:33

Or not.

661

: 00:28:34

I don't think I've ever answered a

question with one word in my life.

662

: 00:28:36

I do want to finish.

663

: 00:28:38

Because I like you both.

664

: 00:28:38

You have recruited me.

665

: 00:28:39

Awesome.

666

: 00:28:39

Right.

667

: 00:28:40

Okay.

668

: 00:28:40

We understand it's a tool order for those

in the hospital as well, particularly

669

: 00:28:44

recruiters to keep it concise, but let's

see how you fare.

670

: 00:28:48

We're judging on speed, weight and

succinctness, which I hope you can prove

671

: 00:28:53

better than I can say.

672

: 00:28:55

The one who's on top of the leaderboard at

the end of the season will receive...

673

: 00:28:59

Are you ready for this, Nick?

674

: 00:29:01

Yes.

675

: 00:29:02

A...

676

: 00:29:03

Amazon.

677

: 00:29:03

Right.

678

: 00:29:05

It don't care, it's the competition I just

did.

679

: 00:29:09

Reward is irrelevant.

680

: 00:29:10

Yes.

681

: 00:29:11

So you geared up.

682

: 00:29:14

Um, I'm going to, yes, I'm ready.

683

: 00:29:15

I'm ready.

684

: 00:29:15

Go.

685

: 00:29:16

Okay.

686

: 00:29:16

Let's get some answers.

687

: 00:29:18

Zombie apocalypse, run, hide or join?

688

: 00:29:20

Join.

689

: 00:29:22

Airworm song.

690

: 00:29:23

No.

691

: 00:29:24

Super power choice, flight or

invisibility?

692

: 00:29:27

Flight.

693

: 00:29:28

Strangest spoon you've ever tried?

694

: 00:29:32

Caterpillar.

695

: 00:29:33

If you were a cocktail, which one would

you be?

696

: 00:29:37

An old fashioned.

697

: 00:29:38

Favorite word in the English language?

698

: 00:29:40

Hospitality.

699

: 00:29:41

Oh, that's good.

700

: 00:29:43

That's good.

701

: 00:29:44

If you could be any historical figure for

the day, who would you be?

702

: 00:29:47

Winston Churchill.

703

: 00:29:48

Which house or Hogwarts would you be?

704

: 00:29:51

Never seen.

705

: 00:29:52

Most unusual item in your home?

706

: 00:29:54

A wok.

707

: 00:29:56

If you had to yelp, what would you name

it?

708

: 00:29:59

Appetite for adventure.

709

: 00:30:01

Oh, I learned.

710

: 00:30:03

Favourite sitcom character?

711

: 00:30:05

Chandler.

712

: 00:30:06

Best dish you could cook?

713

: 00:30:09

Stove-Rite.

714

: 00:30:10

If you could ban just one food forever,

what would it be?

715

: 00:30:14

Mushy Bees.

716

: 00:30:16

What was the last thing that made you

laugh out loud?

717

: 00:30:19

This.

718

: 00:30:21

Brilliant, we love that.

719

: 00:30:23

Queen first or jam on a spoon?

720

: 00:30:26

Oh jam.

721

: 00:30:27

My mate, love it or hate it?

722

: 00:30:28

Love it.

723

: 00:30:30

Most unexpected hobby?

724

: 00:30:32

Walking.

725

: 00:30:34

That is unexplainable.

726

: 00:30:36

If you could teleport anywhere right now,

where would you be?

727

: 00:30:40

Australia.

728

: 00:30:43

Favorite snack?

729

: 00:30:43

Chocolate.

730

: 00:30:44

If you could have the dinner with any

fictional character, who would that be?

731

: 00:30:50

It would be Jack Nicholson from One Flew

Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

732

: 00:30:54

Nick, why do round pizzas come in square

boxes?

733

: 00:30:58

No idea.

734

: 00:30:59

What do you call a boomerang that won't

come back?

735

: 00:31:02

A ruler.

736

: 00:31:03

Why don't you call a crocodile in a vest?

737

: 00:31:05

Lost.

738

: 00:31:09

The answer is of course an investigator.

739

: 00:31:13

Oh dear.

740

: 00:31:14

And the other one was a steed, but we

wouldn't take Runa.

741

: 00:31:16

We wouldn't take Runa.

742

: 00:31:17

That was good.

743

: 00:31:20

Remember old schools that obviously we

wouldn't Runa anyway.

744

: 00:31:23

Yeah.

745

: 00:31:24

Thanks, Snags.

746

: 00:31:24

Great to have you on now actually to get

some insight on who Nick Cloamer is behind

747

: 00:31:28

all the bright lights.

748

: 00:31:30

It's lovely to meet you.

749

: 00:31:31

Yeah.

750

: 00:31:31

No thank you.

751

: 00:31:32

It's very kind.

752

: 00:31:32

And this is the first podcast I've ever

done.

753

: 00:31:35

Ever, ever, ever.

754

: 00:31:36

So you know what?

755

: 00:31:37

I really enjoyed it.

756

: 00:31:38

I think you guys are great individually

and collectively and I can't wait to do

757

: 00:31:42

more stuff with you in terms of, you know,

positive industry things to do our best.

758

: 00:31:46

Yeah.

759

: 00:31:46

Hats off, hats off.

760

: 00:31:48

Exactly.

761

: 00:31:48

Big lever in your message.

762

: 00:31:49

Better together.

763

: 00:31:50

Always.

764

: 00:31:50

Thank you, Nick.

765

: 00:31:51

Okay.

766

: 00:31:52

Thank you.

767

: 00:31:52

And thank you to our listeners for tuning

in to Talking Hospitality.

768

: 00:31:57

Don't forget, you can get in contact with

us via our website, www.

769

: 00:32:04

You can also contact us through socials on

Instagram, Facebook and TikTok by

770

: 00:32:08

searching at Talking Hospitality.

771

: 00:32:11

Our website offers more episodes, blogs on

the topics discussed and training that are

772

: 00:32:16

specific to the hospitality industry to

help you and your team develop their

773

: 00:32:20

hospitality careers.

774

: 00:32:22

Your support makes these conversations

possible.

775

: 00:32:25

Remember to like and subscribe wherever

you get your podcasts.

776

: 00:32:28

Stay tuned for more engaging discussions

in the world of hospitality.

777

: 00:32:32

Until next time, keep pushing boundaries

and stay awesome.