How To Address Alcohol Addiction In Hospitality

Speaker A: 00:00:00

In today's episode, we are looking at one of the darker sides to hospitality, and that's the world of alcohol and drug abuse.

We will be speaking to someone who got out and has been living positively ever since and is tackling the taboo subject head on and blowing the lid off stigma. Michelle Regini from the podcast We Recover Loudly. Timothy, put the kata on. Welcome to another episode of Talking Hospitality.

It's season three with me, Timothy R. Andrews, and I'm delighted to welcome back my special guest host, Tracey Rashid.

Speaker B: 00:00:42

Hi. Hi, Tim. How are you? Good.

Speaker A: 00:00:44

Welcome back.

Speaker B: 00:00:46

Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker A: 00:00:47

Due to professional commitments, Sarah is unable to be with us today, but we know she'll be listening and grading Tracey out of 10. No pressure, eh, Tracy?

Speaker B: 00:00:57

No, I reckon I'll get 11.

Speaker A: 00:01:00

She talks game, listeners, but you should see her face. Tracy, I'm so glad you could join us for what is actually going to be our 30th episode.

Speaker B: 00:01:12

Wow, that's impressive. That's amazing.

Speaker A: 00:01:14

Of course, we're not just here to chat amongst ourselves, are we, Tracy?

No, we're here to talk to the incredible Michelle Ragini, host of Podcast We Recover Loudly, a podcast shaking up conversations about addiction recovery and drinking cultures in hospitality. Welcome, Michelle.

Speaker B: 00:01:34

Welcome, Michelle.

Speaker C: 00:01:36

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker A: 00:01:39

How are you today?

Speaker C: 00:01:42

Today is a good day. I've woken up sober. I have showered, I have done my morning commitments, I have had a cup of tea.

So, you know, all things which 21 months ago, I definitely wouldn't have done. So it's these lovely little things that every morning it's great to wake up and just say, the simple things have happened.

Speaker A: 00:02:03

Let's talk about your podcast. What is We Recover Loudly about?

Speaker C: 00:02:07

It launched on the 5th of May.

So, yeah, it's still very new, and I've been really grateful for the guests that I've had on so far, taking a chance and trusting the message that I'm trying to deliver and being so open and vulnerable themselves. I am being schooled right now, though, because so far, everything you guys have done, I've thought, oh, my goodness, I don't do that.

Speaker A: 00:02:32

She might not.

Speaker C: 00:02:34

Absolutely. I apologize to my previous guests.

Speaker A: 00:02:40

It's a great podcast. Like, from the first time I had the trailer, I had goose pimples up my arms. You really set up.

And then the honesty and sincerity of the gift guests, but also your personal journey that you share is really powerful.

Speaker C: 00:02:54

So a little bit like we have with mental health in all industries, not just hospitality, there's been a real push to be far more Present and far more open about the struggles that people go through. But when it comes to mental health, there are a couple of areas where people still are very scared to have conversations. And a big one is addiction.

And you'll find, especially in our industry, when you go to businesses, oh, what do you do for people who are struggling with mental health? They can list a brilliant kind of list of support resources. They've got plans in place.

But if you say to them, what do you do if your team member suffering from addiction, it suddenly can get quite quiet. And as the same with any mental health disorder. And whether you believe addiction is a mental health disorder or not is probably for another.

Podcast certainly destroys your mental health. The silence is the thing that kills it.

And there's a saying in the rooms of a 12 step program that I do, which is we recover loudly so that others don't die silently.

And it's all about turning that story and turning our pain into purpose and therefore being able with something as simple as just sharing your story, hopefully unlocking that darkness for somebody else. And that was really the motivation to start a podcast and a movement and build this community. Specifically on addiction in hospitality.

Speaker A: 00:04:25

Yeah.

Speaker D: 00:04:27

Your challenge, if you choose to accept it, is this. Let's go, let's go. Show up on day one. Work out with us for 30 minutes. Feel good right away, yo. Repeat five days a week for three weeks.

Three weeks, five workouts a week. We're a body and we call that a body block.

Speaker A: 00:04:43

You pick the block and you're going.

Speaker D: 00:04:44

To love the experience on week four. This part is really important. Take the week off. Seriously. We mean it. Rest, go on vacation or try something new. Maybe some yoga.

Speaker A: 00:04:56

Notice you're not holding on to any tension here.

Speaker D: 00:04:59

Or a dance class.

Speaker C: 00:05:00

Get sexy with it, daddy.

Speaker D: 00:05:02

You do you and then start again.

Speaker B: 00:05:04

Be committed to this process.

Speaker D: 00:05:05

Choose a new body block each month. Get a new challenge each month. Have fun every day. Avoid burnout.

Speaker C: 00:05:12

You're not going to quit on yourself today.

Speaker D: 00:05:13

This is how you reach your goals. You win.

Speaker A: 00:05:15

There is nothing that we can't do.

Speaker C: 00:05:18

If we work together.

Speaker D: 00:05:19

Sign up for your first body block today. Visit bodi.com for a free trial. That's b o d I dot com.

Speaker B: 00:05:25

Are you ready to get started?

Speaker C: 00:05:30

I think it's true of so many things. All we want as human beings really is that connection and that identification.

And we just want to know that we're not the only people suffering and that we're not alone. And it could be something as minor as having a bad Day at work and being able to share that with a friend at home.

It's the same when it gets to something more dramatic and something more life threatening and it seems to be strangely, the more serious these things get, the less we talk about it because the more fear we have that people will find out our deepest, darkest secrets. We won't be able to keep up that facade of being a happy, adjusted human being which at the end of the day we all like to portray.

Whereas the irony is most of us have got absolutely no idea what's going on. There will be people listening that can think, I'm not alone.

And more importantly, it is possible to turn my life around and to still work in hospitality successfully.

Speaker A: 00:06:31

I think that's what's really interesting about your message because there's immediate reaction to alcohol because we think hospitality, most of us think alcohol.

People that are struggling, it's either whether they're working, which we're going to go into a bit more anyway, or even if they're socially going out somewhere. There's a, oh, I can't do that because. But actually you can.

And I think this is where your message is so powerful because it doesn't mean you could stop having fun.

Speaker C: 00:06:59

It's so true. And I know you guys, you talk a lot about kind of recruitment, retention. It's a huge thing in our industry right now. So 25% of Gen Z don't drink.

They don't drink because they choose not to drink. And I think it's really important that it's not just people who have alcohol misuse disorder who we're talking about here.

There are large sections of society that choose not to drink because it just doesn't agree with them. And those numbers are getting bigger and bigger. As a workforce, as an industry, we have to change the way that we incentivize our teams.

Who wants a beer after work? Who wants to win the bottle of Prosecco?

The socializing like you just mentioned it would always be, let's go to the pub after work, we'll go to the local club, we'll have a lock in. What do you do on the days off? Well, we meet down the road, we have drinks.

It's just the whole culture around drinking and the acceptance of exc, which we have as our generation have just seen as the norm. It has to change regardless of whether or not people within your company have a problem with alcohol.

Because our new generations are the ones that are asking questions and saying, do you know what? That doesn't work for me.

Speaker A: 00:08:15

I Talked about this on a previous podcast where we had Moltman, who did 90 days alcohol free, and then she's never gone back.

And one of the things that we all see is that when somebody does put the stand in and says, I'm not drinking, I'm not drinking tonight, or whatever, a lot of other people seem to be quite relieved that now they don't have to. You're not drinking? Oh, I don't think I will either. See, it's definitely very ingrained.

Speaker B: 00:08:41

Often it can take a while for people to realize they have a problem. Are there signs or indicators that we can look at that could be flags for us?

Speaker C: 00:08:48

100%.

I didn't start out with a drinking problem, and I think it's really important that people realize that, that without trying to sound too scaremongery, but you don't have to start out with a drinking problem to get a drinking problem. My drinking was incredibly normal for years, even while I was within the industry in my early 20s and stuff.

But all I could see around me was excess partying, connection, community. Hey, guys, remember last night?

I always use the example of that Friends episode when Rachel starts smoking because every time she goes to the smoking area, that's when the trip to Paris goes. And it would be like that as well. In our industry, if you don't go for the after work drinks, you do miss out. I don't think too sweeping to say that.

And before I knew it, I was so swept into this chaotic but exciting lifestyle, especially working in London. It was incredible. It was loud, it was brash, it was energizing, it was adrenaline inducing, but it was unsustainable.

And at no point was there anyone around me going, do you know what? Maybe we should slow down, maybe we should stop.

And every time I would find myself in a position with a job where the pressure was too much, where the stress was getting on top of me, I was never given any tools or certainly shown that there was a different way to deal with those pressures in the industry other than drinking. Oh, God, what a shift. Let's have a drink. Oh my God, I just want to go home and have a bottle of wine.

I was never given any form of resilience or shown any other way.

And for me, the insidiousness of drinking and alcohol, and that's why it's such a dangerous drug, the only drug that we have to excuse ourselves from using is that all it takes is that one moment and it just catches and it tips you over and suddenly any sort of life skills, any coping strategies, anything else that I had in my toolkit was gone.

Because alcohol works when you want to numb out, when you want to forget yourself, when you're feeling like the biggest failure in the room, when you're lost, when you're alone. It does a really great job of numbing all that out, but that's where it just starts to slowly but surely grab you.

And before I knew it, in my early 30s, suddenly drinking it wasn't anything I did for fun anymore. I had to do it to get through my evening. It wasn't a daytime thing. I was never physically dependent. I'm very grateful for that.

But the idea of going home after a long shift and just sitting with my feelings, sitting with the day, sitting with my decisions, sitting with what I was going to have to do the next day was too much. And I had to have that glass of wine, which was then two, which was then a bottle, then everything else that comes with that.

And honestly, I almost, sometimes I have to pinch myself because I'm like, I swear I just sat down to have a glass of Merlot. What am I doing in aa? Because it feels like that fast. But that's why I think it's so important to talk about it.

Speaker B: 00:12:04

As you mentioned in your podcast, often it's not talked about. It's often laughed over. You work hard, push the targets.

Every night's a celebration or commiseration with alcohol until it stops working and then no one talks about it.

Speaker C: 00:12:18

If you don't feel that you can talk to somebody at work, and in fairness, I feel that's probably sadly the majority of us. There are so many organizations out there that can support you.

I'm an ambassador for the Burnt Chef, who are an incredible mental health social organization. They have a helpline that you can call.

There is a really great organization called Choose Sunrise, which is based up north, that do alcohol safe workplace accreditations. And they're a really great resource. Reach out to me, reach out to. We recover loudly, Send us a message.

But the biggest thing I think is just opening your mouth. It's so silly because it's the simplest thing. In the end, it is the hardest thing.

Find somebody that you trust, and if you haven't got somebody that you trust, there are these free resources out there that can support you. The drinks trust are amazing. They have many free resources, including a free course on how to drink mindfully.

They've got a free course on if you think your drinking is becoming more damaging than that. Also, just be curious about your own drinking Habits just have a couple of days off, see what happens.

It might be that it actually isn't something that you have to get quite so far down as I did before you make those behavioral changes. And again, I suppose one of the big things is just to look at what you're doing to de stress what tools are you using? And it's. I think it's really.

If me, when I was drinking two bottles of wine and I if somebody had said to Shel, have you thought about breath work? I'd have been like, get lost. Get away from my Shiraz.

Speaker D: 00:13:52

You will fail. So what? Everybody does. But your gym, your watch, your yoga pants, they pretend you won't.

So when you miss a day, eat the pancakes, give up on a workout. You failed. Seriously, what the hell? We're Bodi. We've been a part of that too, but not anymore.

At Bodi, we're rejecting perfection and embracing reality. Not in a Pizza Monday kind of way. In a loving your whole life kind of way. In a this workout is fun and it's okay if I take a week off kind of way.

In an I'm eating healthy and it's okay if I indulge kind of way. In a I like myself no matter what kind of way. Yeah, you will fail. We all will. But we're not gonna let that be the end. See that?

We're already making progress, so let's keep going. We are Bodi. Start your free trial@bodi.com. that's b o d I dot com.

Speaker C: 00:14:54

I don't know about you guys, but I'll look on Instagram, I'll see all these other sober people and I'll be like, oh, my God, I have to do yoga. I have to do breath work. I need to learn embroidery. I. Oh, my God, I'm just gonna drink because it does. It looks impossible.

But just remember that those people's realities, that's not there every day. And we all had to start somewhere nobody came into. If reach out to a 12 step program, it's changed my life. It's free.

That's the most amazing thing as well. And it was just nobody comes into those rooms having a great day.

And the relief of being able to just take off the mask, just literally walk into a room of people. We have a phrase in the rooms that we will love you until you learn to love yourself.

And to be able to stand in a room of people who didn't know me yet knew me because I was them and be held and be loved until I could get Some form of self worth. The fact that it was free is just like blows my mind. And yeah, there's also loads of other sober podcasts. That was one of the first things I do.

I listened to one called the Recovery Elevator, which is an American one. And he just interviews just regular people who have got different lengths of sobriety. And I've. It's.

I think it's about getting that identification, isn't it? And realizing, oh my goodness, that's my brain, I'm not alone. Suddenly that blows it all out of the water.

And you think, gosh, if they can do it, I can do it. And you definitely can.

Speaker A: 00:16:20

It's quite interesting because you talked about Journey.

If people are struggling, like Tracy said, are there sort of red flags perhaps that people should look out for that might be indicating that they have a problem?

Because people that I've worked with that have been addicted, there seems to be that an unawareness until suddenly there's an awareness, like something normally disastrous happens. And it's not always the first disaster either. It seems to be maybe the second, third, fourth.

Are there red flags that perhaps people should consider or be aware of? Or is it not as simple as that?

Speaker C: 00:16:55

I think the red flags in terms of your team are very similar to any kind of mental health distress.

I think that for me anyway, personally, it was the lateness, the extended sick days, the erratic behavior that changes in with within the same day, the change of mood from up, very up high to very down because your mood, your hormones, your. Everything's all over the place when it's trying to come down from alcohol or drug use.

So your whole body is now in survivor mode because you've it through such a trauma effectively the night before with what you've decided to consume and simple silly things like, I would come to work without makeup. Now I'm a person who loves makeup. I, especially when I worked in London, I was full drag queen every day.

Because you could get away with it in London, not so much in Bath. Especially when you work at home alone. It is a bit weird. I'm 100 guilty of this as a manager.

The fear because of the unknown and because this conversation feels so. Have you got a problem with drinking? You just don't discuss it and you just almost.

We've let people go in the past because their behavior has not been appropriate for the business. But at any point did we sit down and have a discussion and say, hey, are you actually okay? Can we help you? Can we support you?

No, you wait until their. Their work outputs or whatever they're doing or like you said, it becomes a big catastroph. Something goes terribly wrong and then, oh, you fire them.

That doesn't need to get to that. And I think as well as just being curious, one of the biggest things that a manager can do, which is really difficult and I know I never did it.

Lead by example. Yeah, that's it. Be that manager that goes, guys, I'm having five minutes to myself because I need it for my mental health.

I'll see you guys in five, if that's all right. Walk away, have a walk outside, have a debrief after shift that doesn't involve drinking. How many?

We were great at doing pre shift briefs and revving the team and yeah, let's do this. But how often do we sit down and evaluate what went well, where we got things to work on, highlight the good stuff.

Speaker B: 00:19:10

A number of our listeners are employers, so what advice can you give them if they are concerned that one of their team might be addicted?

Speaker C: 00:19:17

I would ask that team member to come in for a chat and I would outline the reasons for the chat before the chat happens because I think it produces. There's nothing worse than a manager saying, we need to talk, let's do this at 2 o' clock Wednesday when it's a Monday.

And I like I would lead with that with a compassionate inquiry. I wouldn't sit there and be like, this is what we've noticed and we're upset about this and we're angry and all of that.

I would literally just have the space to say, how are you? Are you okay? This has nothing to do with work. I just want to know about you.

Take them out of the workplace, take them down the road, take them to a coffee shop. Something that we are really bad at doing is having those check ins with our team members.

Remember we used to do six month appraisals and then they never happen and have a check in with every team member. Just make sure.

Every month there is an expectation that, for example, Simon, me and you, on the last Thursday of every month we have a 15 minute catch up that's in the diary. It doesn't move. That is when it's going to happen.

It's creating that culture where talking and being open is accepted and that you're not reprimanded for being a human effectively.

So that before you get to this position where you're worried about a team member and their alcohol consumption, you've already created that environment wherein it's okay to talk and it's okay to have bad days and also just as a manager, like we said, lead by example, look at your own behaviors, be open about saying, right guys, I'm off now. No, no drink for me. It's a Monday. I'm not going to do that. If you don't spend that time with the team, that's where the recruitment comes in.

That's where the consistency with the training, that's where you constantly are losing team members, starting from scratch again and again and it's exhausting for managers and it's just, it's insustainable.

Speaker A: 00:21:10

Good advice. This has been really, really powerful. Thank you very much. If anyone wants to get in touch, how can they?

Speaker C: 00:21:20

At the moment, the best way to get in touch with me is either LinkedIn or Instagram, which is erecoverloudly the website www.werecoverloudly.com. on that website there is a contact page.

There's also a link that if you are somebody who works in hospital hospitality, you're either in recovery or in fact you just have a point of view about addiction in hospitality or you are a person who works within the mental health sector or somebody who can resource. There's a form there that you can fill in to apply to be a guest. We have people coming up who are in recruitment, other mental health services.

It's all about empowering people with the tools as well as wanting to hear people's life stories because as we say, it's that loud recovery that helps others put the cuppa down. Question time.

Speaker B: 00:22:14

Uh oh.

Speaker A: 00:22:15

Yes, uh oh is right, Michelle.

Speaker B: 00:22:21

So the reason for this round, Michelle, is so we can find out a little bit more about you, the person. How the game works is you'll be asked a question and you must answer the first word. And we mean the first word pops into your head.

Speaker C: 00:22:33

I should have stretched for this.

Speaker B: 00:22:44

What color are your eyes?

Speaker C: 00:22:46

Blue.

Speaker A: 00:22:47

Where do you live?

Speaker C: 00:22:48

Bath.

Speaker B: 00:22:49

What's your favorite movie ever?

Speaker C: 00:22:51

My own Private Idaho.

Speaker A: 00:22:53

Do you have a nickname?

Speaker C: 00:22:54

Shell. But I made that nickname up.

Speaker B: 00:22:57

What's your worst habit?

Speaker C: 00:22:59

Secretly eating chocolate and crisps.

Speaker A: 00:23:02

What was your last emoji?

Speaker C: 00:23:04

Screaming Cat.

Speaker A: 00:23:06

Mountains or beach?

Speaker C: 00:23:07

Oh, beach.

Speaker B: 00:23:08

Who inspires you to be better?

Speaker C: 00:23:11

Everybody in the rooms of AA to be honest.

Speaker A: 00:23:14

Jeans or chinos?

Speaker C: 00:23:16

Oh, neither. I have got a round bum. I am a dress and skirt girl. This body is not made for trousers.

Speaker B: 00:23:25

What is the most embarrassing thing you've ever worn?

Speaker C: 00:23:32

I was in London in my early 20s and way before Lily Allen ever did it. It was all about the tutus and the prom. Dresses and trainers and the big jewelry and stuff. And to this day, I still think she stole my look.

Speaker A: 00:23:44

What incredibly strong opinion do you have that is completely unimportant in the grand scheme of things? Lily Allen stole your fashion.

Speaker C: 00:23:53

Yes.

Speaker B: 00:23:55

What's the most ridiculous fact you know.

Speaker C: 00:23:58

That a I think this is correct collection of pandas is called an embarrassment in one word.

Speaker A: 00:24:06

How would you sum up the Internet?

Speaker C: 00:24:08

Empowering.

Speaker B: 00:24:09

What's your favorite comfort food?

Speaker C: 00:24:11

Sandwiches.

Speaker A: 00:24:12

What would be the worst thing for the government to make illegal chocolate.

Speaker B: 00:24:18

Where's the best place you have ever worked in the world ever?

Speaker C: 00:24:21

Hawksmoor.

Speaker A: 00:24:22

What's the punchline to the funniest joke?

Speaker C: 00:24:24

Hot cross bunny.

Speaker B: 00:24:29

What secret conspiracy would you like to start?

Speaker C: 00:24:32

That Lily Allen stole my style. So.

Speaker A: 00:24:38

If a rabbit has long ears and a horse has a long face.

Speaker C: 00:24:43

Long.

Speaker A: 00:24:44

How many chickens would it take to kill an elephant?

Speaker C: 00:24:47

Seven.

Speaker A: 00:24:50

And that's it. You're off the hook.

Speaker C: 00:24:55

Oh, my days. That's hilarious.

Speaker A: 00:24:56

Hawksmoor, if you're listening, please feel free to sponsor both our podcasts.

Speaker C: 00:25:01

Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: 00:25:03

Yes, thank you so much. Have a lovely rest of your day, and we look forward to seeing you spoilt soon.

Speaker C: 00:25:09

Thank you.

Speaker A: 00:25:10

Thank you for taking up the reins once again, Tracy.

Speaker B: 00:25:13

You're welcome, Tim. It's been an absolute pleasure and a big thank you to our listeners who made the podcast possible.

Speaker A: 00:25:20

That's all of this episode, but tune in next week where we will have another fabulous guest who will be talking hospitality.