How to Make your own Successful Gin Business. From Crazy idea to Crazy Gin.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:00:00

Anyone that's listening to this and that has an idea, it's those baby steps rather than thinking, how am I going to launch? And it can feel like it's a mammoth task and it's a mountain to climb. It's one of the small steps that you can take.

So for us, the first small step was, let's go and contact someone. Can it be done? What does it entail? Once you've got to that bit, you go on to the next step.

If it's chunkable sizes, it's so much easier to make headway otherwise. It's so easy to be paralyzed just with decision making.

Bruce Nagra: 00:00:28

The perfectionism is the biggest kind of, I guess, the thing that holds people back. I'll do when it's right or the timing is not right, it's never going to be right. Give it a shot. You can always change.

Joe McDonnell: 00:00:45

What does it take to build a brand from the ground up? Break into the UK's top hotels and restaurants and challenge industry norms along the way.

In this episode, we're joined by Bruce and Paramjit Nagra, founders of Crazy Gin, to hear their incredible journey, one fuelled by ambition, resilience and the touch of madness.

From an idea sparked over a kitchen table to seeing their gin poured in some of the country's most prestigious venues, Bruce and Paramjit share their lessons. They've learned the challenges they've overcome and the mindset needed to turn a vision into reality.

This conversation is packed with advice for anyone looking to build a business from scratch. So much so that even our production crew member couldn't help but join in the conversation and share his thoughts.

For more episodes, blogs and courses on the subjects raised, visit talkinghospitality.com and now over to the show. Join Timothy R. Andrews and me, Joe McDonnell, as we ask Bruce and Paramjit. So why gin?

Timothy R Andrews: 00:01:59

Why did you choose gin?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:02:01

I think it was the best flavour carrier for us with the spices that we wanted to use. And the juniper, it was more of a. Just blended them all together. Yeah, I think that was the main.

Bruce Nagra: 00:02:12

Reason, I think because you're finding gins being spice, sweet and different flavors. And then when we looked into it more afterwards, it was about how the juniper and just binds flavors together and balances.

Whereas it's a bit like when we distill, you got all these amazing flavors in there, but they're very intense and there's no balance. And as soon as you add it to the gin, then you find that it kind of works there.

Yeah, it's kind of like that magic thing that just kind of brings it all together.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:02:40

It's like some food. I'm sorry to interrupt.

I was just going to say, because we just distill everything individually and blend it together, you've just got that right balance of bringing the harmony and all of those flavours together.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:02:52

So I'm really fascinated by this because obviously you, like you said you're in a restaurant and I can.

Bruce Nagra: 00:02:57

Oh, no, we're at home. Yeah. So it's obviously a bit more. Then it doesn't sound so bad.

Also, halfway through bottle of red wine and you're on Disronno and Coke, however you get inspired.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:03:10

Right.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:03:11

I built a recruitment company that way. So that might explain why how it ended. I think it ended in a similar way. Anyway. The. Yeah. So obviously, how. What were you doing before then?

Because this is quite a radical life choice. You suddenly, obviously just suddenly had that magic moment which happens and you have to do it. But what led. What were you doing before?

And how does that compare to what you're doing now?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:03:33

Yeah, so I was a project manager for the Met Police. Completely different. I loved eating, I loved drinking, but I had never worked in hospitality, so it's very different.

But I feel like with what I'm doing now, there's more purpose, there's more meaning. It's never been just about the gin. I think with us it's been a lot more.

It's been about showcasing the best of our culture and really elevating drinks by bringing something new and exciting.

Bruce Nagra: 00:04:03

And myself, I was a building manager for universities and hospitals. So completely different. Completely different. I mean, the only thing that the synergy was that we like eating and drinking.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:04:17

So that's. Because that's really interesting. Right. And I think what I'm. What really. Because I think I might be inclusive. Don't make it be inclusive.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:04:23

You did indeed.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:04:24

Yes. So be inclusive. Hospitality. If you don't know, please check out our Episode with Lorraine Coates link below. And.

And I remember speaking to you and it was very. Your story, it was very inspiring. And I'm kind of.

Our listeners, a lot of our listeners are decision makers or people thinking about running their own business.

And I'm quite interested because obviously having your background, Asian background, how that might have impacted trying to get the business off the ground, whether positively or negatively, how you. How people responded to you on that and what advice you would give to people thinking about, actually, I want to give something a go.

Bruce Nagra: 00:05:02

I think the big trigger for us is like, we had this idea and it Was kind of want to get on this journey, went to sleep drunk. I woke up hungover the next day. And the kind of thing that I tend to do is I'll jump online, see, has somebody actually made this?

Because if they made it, I want to buy it. Wasn't a case of I hope no one's made it because it's something I can make and launch. It'd be like, I, we can't.

Surely we can't be the only ones that thought like this. And there must have been somebody who's kind of done this. So I'm online, couldn't find anybody who'd done it.

And I thought, oh, slightly disheartened thinking, is it because you can't do it?

Timothy R Andrews: 00:05:38

Yeah.

Bruce Nagra: 00:05:38

So then I'm like going further down the rabbit hole thinking, well, is there a way that it can be done? And then we came across guys who'd done a cringe in. Okay, so hold on. And they distill. And I thought, let's drop an email. Let's see.

Firstly, can it be done? And secondly, what would it cost?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:05:56

Yeah.

Bruce Nagra: 00:05:57

And I think the trigger for that was probably a few years prior to that, my father passed away. He passed away from motor neurons disease. And he was there kind of like a typical Asian dad, where he, he lived to retire.

So he'd be like, when I retired, that's when he'd only ever hold in India to go see his dad and his sister. And then we'd always say, well, you know, there's other parts of the world.

He said, listen, when I retire, I'm spend six months India, six months in uk. He basically followed the sun. Yeah. But when it came to retiring, within a month, he was diagnosed with mnd. Passed away within six months.

And I think the trigger for us was you never know what's around the corner. And I think it's that if only or what if on your final days.

And like I've rather, we'd rather try even if it fails, at least you tried it and if it succeeds, then fantastic. But it was that, that was the moment that made us feel, well, let's give something a shot. Yeah, let's, let's, let's do this.

Because nobody else has tried it and I'm sure others will be into it.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:07:05

Yeah. Also I'm just thinking about anyone that's listening to this and that has an idea.

It's those baby steps rather than thinking, how am I going to launch? And it can feel like it's a mammoth task and it's a mountain to climb. It's one of the small steps that you can take.

So for us, the first small step was, let's go and contact someone. Can it be done? What does it entail? And once you've got to that bit, you go on to the next step.

If it's chunkable sizes, it's so much easier to make headway otherwise. It's so easy to be paralyzed just with decision making.

And then before you know it, a week's gone by, a month's gone by, a year's gone by and you're still there with your thoughts, thinking, you know, I've got this idea. I wonder what it would be like.

Bruce Nagra: 00:07:44

To just add on to that. It's. You can't perfect it. The perfectionism is the biggest kind of, I guess, thing that holds people back.

I'll do when it's right or the timing's not right. It's never going to be right.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:07:57

Yeah.

Bruce Nagra: 00:07:58

Like you're never going to have all the stars aligned and everything. But it's that. Give it a shot. You can always change and tweak. Like, nobody ever complains about something getting better. It goes the other way.

Yes, you'll get instant feedback, but nobody's going to complain as you keep improving. So it's like, just try small and grow from there.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:08:18

Because I've heard the expression a while back about how the graveyard is littered with businesses that might have been. It's all about how people just, oh, I'm gonna. When this happens.

Bruce Nagra: 00:08:30

Yeah.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:08:31

And for me, when I set up my own business, there was no other time to do it. And it was a bit like, I've got to do it now, otherwise I'll really regret. Regret not doing it.

And I knew that the whole kind of thought process, I'd always be going, what if I'd. What if I'd. What if I'd. So.

And it was, it was 20 years of my life, you know, and I, of course there were bad moments, but if I look back, the things that I know, the people that I've met, the freedom that it gave me, ultimately, when it was doing well, it did, you know, I did well too. And the joys of the wins, just worth doing. I wouldn't take any of that back.

And also, it's what I've learned from the experience, both positive and negatively, I now use in my life now. Right. And so, like you, I totally think, you know, you just. Sometimes you just got to do it.

But Joe, you've used it up as well, your own consultancy now haven't you? So what was that like for you? Does anything resonate with you?

Bruce Nagra: 00:09:29

Yeah, for sure.

Joe McDonnell: 00:09:30

I mean, I was just about to ask the question, like, when you look back, said you started in 16, right?

Bruce Nagra: 00:09:37

Yeah,: 2016

Joe McDonnell: 00:09:39

When you look back on that journey, what was the thing for you that was that you thought was the most difficult, the most insurmountable? That actually was quite easy for me in my company. It was having a team of people around me that I trusted. I thought that was going to be.

I have to be at this particular level. I have to be at this level of experience in order to get people in the business who can contribute. And that was. That was dead wrong, actually.

I found that employing people and bringing people in who have got completely different expertise, to me is the way to grow a great team. But when I. Before I started my journey in entrepreneurship, I thought that was going to be impossible.

You know, I thought I was going to be years and years before I could get good people around me. But actually it was. It's been the easiest part. And I wondered for you guys, what's been when you.

When you looked at this, this mountain of creating this really unique brand that no one's ever done before, what was it? That's. What was it that was easier than you thought it would be?

Bruce Nagra: 00:10:41

I guess at the beginning, the part that was probably scariest. Yes, you've made a product.

And the reason it's called Crazy Gin is because, not that we were trying to be clever or we're trying to say that it's going to do something to you that's going to make you crazy. Despite what they say about Gin, it was that thing of, we had this idea and family, friends and family were like, what do you know about business?

How are you going to launch? It's what you know about drinks. Who are you to think what you can make something business people are born.

That's the other thing that we heard and the common word we kept hearing was, it was a Punjabi word. It said, you must be pagal, and pagal is a Punjabi word for being crazy. And we thought, well, hold on, hold on.

If you think about this, a lot of the people we know hate their jobs, hate what they do, but they carry on with it. Are they the crazy ones for doing something that they hate every single day?

They hate going to work, they hate doing this, or we, the crazy ones, trying to do something different? So we embraced the name there. But what did dawn on us was, yeah, we got this product, we got this brand, we got the label. We got this great.

Who's going to buy it? Where's it going to end up? Like family? Say, what's it going to go in your corner shop?

And ironically, there was a corner shop at the end of the road that I was trying to target. We didn't really understand pricing. This is our first ever business.

But where we were quite good at the beginning is the people that we found making our product for us. We knew that they had other products, we knew that they sold into other venues like Harvey Nichols.

And so even though we didn't push it, I remember one of the first times we had our first ever bottle. So there's only one bottle, liquid for one bottle. A label that went to the inkjet printer. It was Blue Peter style, double sticky, taped on.

If the bottle got wet, it looks like the eyes are crying. It was just like it was full kind of surgeon. I remember, I remember getting a call from saying, oh, we've got this meeting with Harvey Nichols.

Should we take your bottle along? Immediately I was like, yes, yeah.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:12:46

And he's like, no. I've had to really train myself and really. Because I still have that voice at the back of my head that's just like. But it's not perf perfect. It's.

It's. It's going to set a bad impression. What will people think? I. I have that inner dialogue. So we're very different.

So I've had to really, really work at it. Because sometimes you just gotta give it a go and see and be ready for the opportunity. And when it comes, just go for it if it aligns with you.

Because our story wouldn't be where we are had Bruce listened to me and said, let us just perfect that label. Let's send it off and get it professionally made. Yeah, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Bruce Nagra: 00:13:26

I think the kind of thought process behind it was, look, even if they don't list it, hopefully we'll get some feedback. And again, it's Harvey Nichols. You're going to respect the level of what they're saying.

And they kind of how they judge a product from taste to look to will it kind of be right for their customers. And so we could take that feedback and tweak and play around. And the upshot, if they list it, fantastic. Not even on our radar.

I maybe don't have to go to the corner shop in the end of the road and try and convince him. And that's kind of. And I think that was the biggest scary part. But because we put ourselves in A position where look at whoever you're using.

Is there something within that network that could help you?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:14:11

It's also aligning ourselves with the right people. It was never. Because sometimes we get asked, you made gin. There was a gin bubble, so you jumped on that. And I'm like, we never one.

We never set out to make a drink, then it was never set out to make a gin. What we were passionate about was. I want to tell you a story of a British Indian. Chefs do it through food.

Our parents do it through food, and they do such an incredible job, but no one's doing it through a drink.

And I want to showcase you what those real authentic flavors are not what someone is trying to make money out and has dial the flavors down a little bit because they want it to be more accessible to the masses. Everyone needs, you know, like, people are ready for those flavors.

We're not going back to the: 1950

I just want to level up that game when it comes to the spirits.

Joe McDonnell: 00:15:08

I'm surprised to hear that someone accuse you of riding the gin bubble, because, I mean, without naming names, there's quite a lot of gins on the market that don't really have a point of differentiation. And obviously there's some of them with the bigger producers, but there's also some of them that are on a pretty micro scale.

And, you know, you go to these trade shows and you talk to people and you think it's. It's nice, but if are you really, does. Does the world really need this? And I think that you're.

You don't fall into that category in any way, shape, or form. This is a. This is a totally different product. Right.

Bruce Nagra: 00:15:43

I guess maybe it's a little controversial, but I guess it's a thing of a lot of people. We do get accused a lot of it. Like the gym bubbles burst, you just jumping on trends. But the market, like, you're right.

There's a lot of very similar tasting things on the market. We know there's no real point differentiation apart from a label and the brand name. But there's a lot of products that are very much the same.

And for us, it's.

It's a little bit frustrating because when we go to some venues, I think that's what they're looking for, but something cheaper because so if they can switch one bottle with another. It's a lot easier for them to kind of put it in a bar.

Whereas when you come with something completely different from a flavor profile, it makes them have a lot of questions. Will it fit? How can I replace brand X with crazy gin? Because now I have to change cocktail. That's extra work. Oh, the price point.

Why are you so expensive on your ingredients? Like, if I think of a curry, I think of cheap. And I'm thinking, why would you think cheap? Spices are spices. They're not cheap.

So I think it's that thing of I get where you're coming from. And I personally, I thought the same. Why would people not embrace something different?

But there still is that thing where people feel a bit safer because I feel like they're a bit scared. Will their customers accept it? Or do I have to do extra work to kind of tweak a cocktail?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:17:09

I think I look at venues very differently now.

There's some that will just want a simple gin and tonic, and they looking for a product that they can just replace with something else and serve it to the customer. But where we have realized where our synergy is with venues, it's the ones that are flavor forward.

It's the ones that are thinking about what flavor journey can I take my customer on? So when they're sitting at that bar, where am I transporting them to? What's that journey that I'm taking them on?

And then it's the same with the food. Sometimes we find in a restaurant, I think it's beginning to change now.

And I think it's a very exciting time to be chefs are taking you through that journey with the food. But then there's a lot of wine pairings. But now we're getting a lot more cocktail drinkers.

And if we're leveling up the food, we want to be leveling up the cocktails. And then there's two ways to do that. You can either have quite a simple. When I say simple spirit, I mean something that's more neutral in flavor.

And then the bartender can bring all the flavor, bring all the flair and the techniques and make that beautiful cocktail for the customer, or the other way of doing it is, let's look at the products that you're using. What journey are they telling, and how can you elevate them further?

Joe McDonnell: 00:18:26

Because I'm dying to know how are venues like, have you got some. Have you got some favorite places that are using crazy gin at the moment and what they're. What they're doing with it?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:18:34

So I loved Tamarind has got two amazing cocktails. So we've got. In addition to the Lusi gin, we've got Abunjabi chai gin, which is my grandmother's recipe for an Indian cup of tea.

Bruce Nagra: 00:18:44

Amazing.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:18:45

And it really John Bias. But every morning, our house smells not like the gin, but of those gin remembers grandma.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:18:58

Nice cup of chai gin.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:19:00

So where people. I think this is, again, breaking the narrative. Sometimes people were like, your lecin is not going to work in a martini.

It works incredibly well in a martini. It's been fat, washed with ghee. So if you pop it in the freezer, you've got those creamy notes. It's texture.

So for us, it's aroma, it's taste on the tongue, but texture is also so important. And we think about it with wine, but I don't think we think about it with spirits enough. And then they've made a beautiful china groni, and with it.

So it's about people that can think a little bit different with those flavors.

And then I think Tattoo in Birmingham as well, they're really celebrating flavors from Asia, but they've incorporated flavors of both the Lycian and the Chai gin into their cocktails. And then there's nods to the west as well about what flavor influences are coming in.

So they're really taking global flavors and creating something unique. But every single cocktail that these places are making are taking the customer on a journey.

Bruce Nagra: 00:19:57

And I think what I like about those two venues is the fact that there are some venues that we've been to where they're very well known for the Indian cuisine. They like to talk about how they really push the envelope with Indian favs, respectful of the culture and everything.

But we've gone in and say it's too Indian. And so we need to dial this back.

Your product is too Indian for this Indian restaurant, which is kind of a contradiction, because I'm thinking, okay, I wasn't expecting that. But where Tamarind have shown is. No, it does. It gives them an extra level to push flavors forward. We're told it can't work in a negroni.

They've made a chai negroni. We're told that the lassi can't work in the martini. In these venues that do them as martinis, it's called the tick boxes for being smooth and creamy.

And then what I like about Tattoo is showing that, yes, it's a Chinese restaurant, but it's spices that cross over. Because a lot of spices we use, yes, they're associated heavily with being Indian, but they come across the spice roots.

So there were a lot of ingredients, spice that are brought to India, that weren't naturally from India, but then it's about. They're telling their journey being Chinese and how the Indian side all works together and ultimately is flavour.

So how does that flavor take people on a journey?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:21:14

You just, you know, I. I heard this quote. It's. It's a Punjabi singer, rapper from Canada, and his name's Garan Ojla.

And he was talking about music and he was saying, music is music. If you love music, you love music. There shouldn't be any barriers around it.

So whether you can understand the language or not, music just transports you. And sometimes we listen to songs, we don't even know what the person's saying it, but you feel it.

And I just thought, I love that because for me, flavor is flavor. There shouldn't be barriers around it. Yes, we're making a British Indian gin, but don't put us in the box that we just belong in a. In a.

In a British Indian restaurant. It's flavor and it's there to be celebrated with cuisines from around the world.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:21:58

I think that's a good place to end. I mean, that is. Thank you so much for coming. And now, obviously, we're now both thirsty and hungry. All right.

Bruce Nagra: 00:22:11

Yeah.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:22:13

Will it be good enough now? I mean, I'll be. I'll be judging the. The restaurant for sure.

Bruce Nagra: 00:22:17

Like, it'd be perfect in these mugs as, like a cup of tea. Yeah.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:22:25

You can ask a question.

Suman Poudel: 00:22:26

Yeah. Hello.

Bruce Nagra: 00:22:30

Oh, hi.

Suman Poudel: 00:22:32

So me being from Nepal. Right. So I'm very. I would say I'm quite familiar with the Indian, you know, spice and culture and everything. Right.

I like what you said about neutral spirit is me coming from our front of house, hospitality knows me. So I absolutely love that idea that he said, okay, you know what? There are a lot of neutral spirit. We are not a neutral spirit.

We are something different. Also, what he said about different level, but the same product, which I've seen in my career. I used to work in a place with 115gin.

I'm not going to disclose the name of the place. Right. But your idea of telling your story of the roots through the drink. And now, how you doing?

Because I was looking at the portfolio before the podcast today, and I saw you in some of the renowned hotels as well and renowned venues. Congratulations, firstly.

Bruce Nagra: 00:23:20

Thank you.

Suman Poudel: 00:23:20

And good luck. Because the chai Negroni that you told me I might be making it next week, Please do.

And Tim, you know, I will, I will definitely, definitely invite you. Right? And look, you, you've got a long way to go and good luck because this is really amazing.

Like, I was just listening to you and me being Asian, living in here for such a long time, I'm just.

Bruce Nagra: 00:23:43

Thinking, like, you know what?

Suman Poudel: 00:23:44

You actually tossed my soul today by the story that you told me. And I'm going to take a lot from you today.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:23:51

Thank you so much.

Bruce Nagra: 00:23:52

Thank you.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:23:53

I just want to say, do you know what? When I speak to people like you, I feel a bit emotional. That's what it's about. We're here and we belong.

And we, I think we found just a little bit about the bits that, you know, we've had the highs and then the lows is when people are just telling us, you don't belong. That's not going to work. Why is it not going to work? Every single one of us has a right. Just, you know, we all belong, we have purpose and why not?

Suman Poudel: 00:24:21

I will add a little bit, like I've worked when I was saying about the gin, right, I could open 10 bottle 10, 10 of them are the same. It's just a different label, Right. I don't want to say anything anyway, right.

But your gin, I have seen the venues and everything and I've tasted it once. I'm not gonna lie to you. Negroni1 definitely is gonna stick to me. And you being in Tamarind and everything, go longer.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:24:47

Thank you so much.

Bruce Nagra: 00:24:48

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:24:49

So just as Paramount check every voice can shape the future. So cheers.

Bruce Nagra: 00:24:53

Cheers.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:24:54

Cheers.

Timothy R Andrews: 00:25:02

Listen, thank you very much, but if somebody wants to find out where your product is, where would they go?

Paramjit Nagra: 00:25:06

You can come to our website. Just type in Crazy Gin. You can go to Harvey Nichols. Eight years.

Bruce Nagra: 00:25:11

Crazy cold.uk oh, sorry. Yes, crazycode.uk thank you very much.

Joe McDonnell: 00:25:16

I'm gonna keep it website too.

Paramjit Nagra: 00:25:19

Amazing, isn't it?

Joe McDonnell: 00:25:20

Extremely beautiful.

Bruce Nagra: 00:25:22

Thank you.

Joe McDonnell: 00:25:24

A huge thank you to our brand partners, Graphic Kitchen and Leisure Jobs, for their continued support of talking hospitality. Graphic Kitchen bring creative storytelling to life, helping hospitality brands stand out in a crowded market.

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